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"How to Deal with Finances and Money Story to help your Travel Business Survive and Thrive with Melissa Browne".

Roslyn Ranse: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Travel Agent Achievers podcast. It's Ros, your host and today I am joined by a very special guest, Melissa Browne. 

Now a lot of you might know her as Mel. You may have seen her on social media, but she is an ex-accountant, ex-financial advisor and ex-working until she drops. She still works a lot just so you know about it. Nowadays, she's a best-selling author, a financial educator and a serial entrepreneur who is passionate about helping women particularly also live a life by design, not by default. 

She's the CEO of melissabrowne.com.au. An education business for women who want to financially grow up. Oh, I hear you. She's the Director of Business at the long day Early Learning Community Thinkers, Inc. and up until she sold the business for seven figures. Mind you in 2019, so pre-COVID. She was also the CEO of the award-winning accounting and advisory firm,  A&TA (Accounting and Taxation Advantage). 

Mel is also the author of four books, the illustrated business book More Money for Shoes, the coffee table book of financial fairy tales, Fabulous but Broke, and the global best-seller Unf*ck Your Finances.

I have to do that for you know ratings or whatever they hear on podcasting, your finances. Now her latest book, Budgets Don't Work but this does is also out now which dives further into understanding your money story, the money environment and also your money type. She has been featured and written in a number of different things. She's spoken for everyone from morning TV shows to Triple J, to Vogue, and to CEO magazine and more. 

I am absolutely thrilled to have Mel Browne here on the Travel Agent Achievers podcast because I've been wanting her to come on for a year, I took the courage and said yes, Mel, please spoke in so we can have this conversation. I know that you have been instrumental in my own financial adulting life. So thank you, Mel, for being here today and joining us on the Travel Agent Achievers podcast.

Melissa Browne: Oh, you're so welcome. Lovely.

Roslyn Ranse:  It's great to have you here. Now, I'm going to dive straight into it today because there is so much awesomeness that you are able to share. But for those of you our listeners that may not know who you are a bit about your backstory. Would you mind just sharing a little bit?

Melissa Browne: Yeah, of course. So I'm an accidental accountant. So I wanted to do law from uni. And I'm gonna give away my age now because I loved the show L.A. Law growing up. And I thought that's the glamorous life that lawyers lived. They were fabulous outfits and argued and I wanted to be part of that. I worked out really quickly. Well, not really quickly, because sometimes I'm a slow learner. So after three years of study, that law was not for me. So I am a smart girl insofar as I've got good grades at school. And so my dad really pushed me towards those professions that he thought Smart Girls should do. So when the law didn't work out, I was so worried I would disappoint him. So when he suggested Accounting, because there's a bit of law in it, I thought, sure, I'll do that. So I call myself an accidental accountant and an accidental business owner. 

So I ended up doing accounting and when I divorced my first husband at age 33, I reassessed everything. So I reassessed. Do I even want to be an accountant anymore? Do I really want to have my own business? I worked out very quickly that I loved helping people. I loved the transformation that can occur when you help a business owner with their business or when you help someone with a personal wealth creation. Accounting was just the conduit that allowed me to do it. So that then meant that I started writing. 

I started writing books, and I really figured out what this looks like for m.? So that's sort of the business side of the personal finance side. At that same time, my then-husband, as you're divorcing, things are emotional. He made a throwaway line where he said, You're not going to make it on your own. Which, you know, we say things when we're upset, and that really I had that reaction. Oh, yeah. He said that, so I took every cent of the divorce proceeds, every dollar in our bank account and in my bank accounts. Sorry, my business bank account gave it all to charity. So I set up a Trust Bank with Opportunity International. I wanted to bring them the next day to say, could I please have that money that I am the charity, because I had no money for bond for paying wages, for Super, for capital in my business, like napping, went into a house with five good friends, which that sounds more glamorous than it is. 

I was reflecting it 20 It is when you're 20. And when you're 20 is when you're 33 not so much. And the room they had left was it was a three-storey house, it was the bottom room. It was a tiny, tiny bedroom that had a double bed like that it took up all the room in the bedroom. I have mold all over the ceiling because it was like a sub basement. 

But I was so grateful that I had that, that it did make me look around and go how like I'm not at the age and stage that I thought I'd be. How on earth did I end up here as someone who's supposed to be good with money? It really sent me on a journey of figuring out  what I wanted in life, but also how to reclaim my financial independence to the point where in my 40s, I have so many choice both in my finances, in my business and in all areas of my life. I'm a multi-millionaire and I say that not too big, note myself, but so that people know if she can do it. Anyone can do it, because genuinely, I'm not that smart. Clearly.

Roslyn Ranse: You made some pretty big choices and decisions back then. So did you still have the Accounting Firm? Or did you start at the point of divorce there?

Melissa Browne: No. So I started the accounting firm accidentally at 28. So I letterboxed a bunch of places in my local area butcher homes, and I just wanted to take on a few clients do a few contracting jobs to do some more study, and at age 33, that within five years that are kind of built up to a business that I didn't really mean to have. So I just said, that took me a year to say, Do I really want these cycles Stop finding myself in places that I don't want to be? So that meant that I kept the accounting firm, I started a financial advice firm, and my intention was at age 50. I'd sell all of those. But I ended up with a compressed nerve in my neck a few years ago, and just hated what I was doing. I think sometimes, you know, there's no long service leave for business owners I was out, which I'm sure a lot of travel owners relate to. I remember, a good friend once said to me, why 50? Like, seriously, what are you waiting for? Within three months, three different people said a version of that. Within three months, I sold it to an ASX- listed company. I had set my business up, I was smart enough within that five years before, my business was always ready for sale. I had great systems, great profit, someone could walk in and just run it. So it was a business that I knew I wanted to always have ready for sale. That was always my exit strategy. So it meant that when that moment happened earlier than I thought I could get rid of it quickly.

Roslyn Ranse: Yeah, it's funny Hearing you say that. Because I remember mentioning to my sister about you a few years ago and your program and she goes, yeah, she was my accountant. 

Melissa Browne: It is such a small world. 

Roslyn Ranse: So sliding doors a moment that I was like, Yeah, cool. She's no longer your accountant. But she's part of my work now. But I mean, and the other thing that you just said then was, you know, understanding your finances, but knowing what you wanted for your business. 

Yeah, that is absolutely crucial and what I have experienced, particularly with the travel industry over the last few years, so you know, the pandemic hit the world shut down and for travel advisors, and part of my journey was I knew coming from a business background what I needed to do in order to keep my business afloat. I wasn't even thinking about selling it, but I knew what I needed to do. I knew that I needed to look at my numbers. I knew that I needed to have good cash flow forecasting and all the rest of it there without relying on anything else. I know. You just say that. I knew what needed to be done. But what I saw for the industry was a lot of people didn't and that was crushing. A lot of business owners just didn't know how to cope or didn't know what to do in order to get through and particularly in the travel industry where we had clients that were saying, Give me all my money back. For a Travel Advisor, the way that we made money was on commission for travels that were booked and paid for or traveled. So a lot of advisors had to start giving back money that they may have made, and that kept a roof over their heads, food on the table. So when I initially heard about you putting together your financial adulting course, I was like, yes, thank goodness, there is somebody here to help small business owners actually look at their finances. So what was the reasoning behind you actually, designing a program for adulting and finance? Like, what was the reason behind that? 

Melissa Browne: Well, part of it is that I'm super introverted. So the idea of doing one on one consulting forever just hurts me. It makes me want to cry. So part of it is that, the other part of when I was a financial advisor, there were so many problems with the industry to the point where best interest duty came in, and the average cost of a financial advisor. Now if you want to go and see someone, it's $3,500.00. And what I know is that's not palatable for a lot of people. It's also not affordable for a lot of people. When you go to see a financial advisor, what they'll do is they'll often put a plan together for you, and then enact that on your behalf. You often don't know, oh, is that actually the best thing for me, I don't really understand what you're doing. 

So I've got a lot of deep trust in you. And that's it. So I have felt very uncomfortable with that model for some time. For me, the reason I started my course is I think the piece with a financial advisor should start about three-quarters of the way into understanding your finances. But there is so much that we need to know financially that we simply don't. And I think there was a gap there in the market. So my thing was, I can fish for you, which is what financial advisors do, or I can teach you to fish. When I say teach you to fish, I mean, I'm not just gonna teach you about share investing, you know, that's such a tiny part of what we need to know about. I want to teach you about why you behave the way you deal with money. So your money stories, your money type, your money mindset, I want you to learn how to put a financial plan together for yourself and ask the question, Where am I now? 

Where do I want to go? And what's the gap between those things and how much is enough, like how much is enough for me? Then I'll teach you investing about shares, property and business and the financial habits that are right for you. But I just saw a gap in that robust, let's actually learn how to have really great transformational finances, rather than just a try to keep doing it for myself in hoping it's enough or thinking I have to pay a lot of money to a financial planner.

Roslyn Ranse: Hmm. So I was just having this conversation with my mom last week about financial advisors, and we're talking about money. I said that you know, there are people that will look at someone who goes to a financial advisor and go, “Oh, my gosh”, they must have so much money to invest because they have somebody on their team as the financial advisor. Whereas, you know, empowering somebody to learn about money, I think is so much bigger. I said to my mama,” there is no problem”. I said, I completely understand for anybody who has a financial planner, because they may not have understood or learned or they want somebody else to help them with those sorts of things. But I said, I know for my future, I want to understand it because I was never taught about money as a child. I wasn't taught how to run books in a business. I wasn't taught about budgeting it was go and get a job at McDonald's and that's you go and play that work hard and smash what you've got. 

But even further back than that, it had the Commonwealth Bank dormant account, Put your money into that and that was it. But as soon as I was able to get a card, you know, well, that money all went because I wasn't given the education of how money could work for me. So when your course came out, like one of the things that I love about it is that financial education empowered myself and a lot of people that I know that have done it with the information to make better choices and decisions. I mean is that one of the reasons why you've got the books and the course and everything is around that education because even hearing your story that you gave it all away? I'm like, really Mel? Like you knew about money, you got yours But I know that emotionally we can make decisions really quickly as well. 

Melissa Browne: Yeah. When I first started writing the books and the blog, and I first started writing for Sydney Morning Herald in the age and Brisbane Times, there were a lot of blocks writing about money, but there weren't a lot of women writing for women. And that landscape has definitely changed in the last decade since I've been doing that. So my first book came out almost 10 years ago. So it's 10 years next month.

Roslyn Ranse: Wow. Oh my God! Congratulations.

Melissa Browne: Thank you. It's so ridiculous to think that this is so much of what I did in my 40s that I wanted there to be a different voice. I wanted there to be something that spoke to women in a way that was palatable for us. I think, well, we know that the media speaks to men and women differently about money. So Sterling Bank research shows that two men most articles are that money makes you more of a man, which is its own problem, right? 

Whereas to women, most articles are that we're overspenders and we need to be more frugal. So two really different messages, both problematic in their own right. But is it any wonder then that women think that, “Oh, I'm bad with money, or I just need to tighten the belt”. When a research piece in the US or fidelity research piece contacted 1000 people, men and women and said who makes better investors, male or men or women, which I hate that question that let's just move past that. 93% said, Men. I think part of that is because of those articles. And that conditioning, we have that unconscious bias that says, this is how these are the roles we play, and that women just aren't as good with money because they overspend they just need to tighten their belt. 

As you said, before, we're not talking about money, we're not talking about investing. Once we realize that women actually, at a Warwick Business School Longitudinal study, prove these women actually better investing than men, we just need to be given a seat at the table, we just need to care about it. Like we care about our families, or many of the other things in our life that we are taught to care about. It's realizing that caring about our finances is like putting on that financial oxygen mask on a plane. There's a reason you put that on yourself first. That's how we look after our families. That's how we look after our communities. So I'm really passionate about it.

Roslyn Ranse:  Yeah, I love that. It's also speaking to women and going back to, stereotypes or the messages that we've been told as well from years past, and I even look at my own family and upbringing. I know the roles that both of my parents played. Yeah, in that family dynamic. My parents split when I was about 12. Having to see my mom and her money story and path play out compared to my dad's like, that was huge for me, and I'm like, hang on a second. But even in my own journey, learning about money has been a real struggle as well, because there haven't been role models or leaders or somebody that I could understand. Yeah, even talking about money. So I'm just so grateful that you went, we need to talk about this, and you had the courage and, the determination to speak up. So yeah, keep doing that. It takes a lot of courage to do that and say, No, things have got to change. I'm okay to put myself out there. So hearing, and I know that you're you say I'm an introvert. I don't like getting out there. But you have actually put yourself.

Melissa Browne: Yeah.

Roslyn Ranse: Big way. 

Melissa Browne: Because for me, the mission was more important than how I felt and COVID quick and that it meant that, before there's no way I would do videos and things like that I just hated being on camera, do morning TV and look back and be so Uber critical.I turned down a lot of money to the exhaust like, oh, I can't tolerate it. And that COVID taught me just to put my ego aside and it was more important to help people understand what was happening, then it was that I can what I look like so I was on camera. 

Every single day, no makeup, hair not done. You know, all the things I gave a shit about before I now no longer cared about and it's funny how you can go through that experience and go you know what? These things don't matter anymore. So yeah, I think like yes, I'm super introverted. But yes, I have an ego how that looks. But it's I think when what you want to do in life, the mission that you have when that's important and big enough. 

Roslyn Ranse: Then the other things will drop away. Yeah. So with your programs, so the financial and holding program, what sort of changes have you seen in people has it surprised you?

Melissa Browne: Oh, absolutely, I was talking and the types of people that have surprised me. So I was talking to an accountant recently who did the program because yes, there are finance people who buy program builders, how I build his houses, cars, mechanics. She said to me, so I was doing, like a reference check for someone. She said to me, Mel, I just need to tell you that the first two weeks are worth the cost of the program alone because I've changed my behaviours so much. I have identified habits that I didn't even realize existed and mindsets that have held me back in my business. Personally, that alone was worth it. Never mind everything else. So there's the massive shifts that people see internally, there's a change in dialogue between partners because suddenly, they realize that their partner is not bad with money. They're just a creator, money type, or a different money type to them. It's about making you both feel safe and seen and heard. 

But we also have super tangible results. You know, I did a survey, when we hit the 1000 people through the course mark earlier this year. I was blown away. So 200 people, 250 people responded to the survey, we had results, like almost a million bucks added to buffer accounts, you know, almost two and a half million dollars added to savings. And 22 houses were built, businesses started, a ridiculous number of credit cards shut down, and half a million bucks in credit card debt paid off, like real, tangible results, as shares in shares invested. Like it was stuff that I looked at and went that's what I'm excited about. I want transformational change is that internal change. But I also want to see that this is what I'm doing as a result. 

Roslyn Ranse: Oh, that is so cool. And I see that as well with travel advisors when they actually take action on the work that you're putting out there and saying these things will make a massive shift not only in your life and your business. Yeah, it's all over. I absolutely love that. So with the impact that has been had done for you, and also anybody who has done the program or read your books, I mean, even just reading your books, I think can have, you know, a profound impact on somebody's life because it can take them to that next step, which is super cool. But do you see that there's a difference? I mean, obviously, there's a difference between men and women with their financial story or the way that they work around money, but also between business owners as well.

Melissa Browne: You may when men and women in business and being employee?

Roslyn Ranse: Yeah. Or even an employee versus a business owner? I mean.

Melissa Browne: Absolutely. So I see differences in gender. So I was part of Entrepreneurs Organization, which was 85% male. And I was part of something called the little black dress book, which is all women. Now, with a little black dress book, people didn't stick dollars said I will I want to grow my business, but wouldn't say how much like that was it was you know, it's not polite to talk the numbers, whereas I'm the one in there going, oh, yeah, I want to hit a million bucks this year. I want to do this. I want to do that. People will come up to me after and go, Oh, you're so brave. Like how is that brave? Like? Yeah, really? We just need to get over it. Where's the guy to?

Roslyn Ranse: Give me the numbers. It doesn't matter. There is no judgment here. This is because it gives you something tangible to them work towards. Yeah, don't tell me just I want to grow. Because I don't know how I can help you. Yeah, but how much? What are the actual numbers? Not vanity metrics?I like to talk about the real numbers. 

Melissa Browne: And that's Something that I love that you said about vanity metrics. It's like I've set you up for this. So it was quite the opposite. So with the blokes, I've been in networking function, and they come up and say hi, I'm such and such, I've got a $5 million business. Hi, I'm such and such. I've got a $10 million business. And I know that's a vanity metric. That's vanity. So I would go to them. I am sure they hated me. I'll go Oh, I love that. What's your profit on that? And it was like I'd said, how large is your penis? Like it was that moment where they're like? Mel, I'm sorry.

Roslyn Ranse: What did you ask that?

Melissa Browne: Yeah, we're not supposed to ask that. So there is still a difference in the guys have an uncomfortableness talking about cash flow and profits. Because that then is the reality of, oh, I might have this big, shiny business, but it is, is it actually a profitable, great business, but I'm going to distract you by this big number that's actually going to make me seem like I'm worthy. And that's where I definitely see. There are still the same problems. We both still need to talk about all of it. We still need to care about cash flow and profit and women we need to talk more about the numbers. We need to understand that going for these big targets is not feminine. But also if you want it to be a kitchen table business, great, but let's make it the most profitable kitchen table business it can possibly be. There's nothing wrong with that. And guys the same, it's a love that you want to say that you're getting a 5 million business. 

What does that mean for profit? And let's work on that number. 

I remember working with a trades business back in the day when I was an Accountant, a $20 million business, I asked him that question in our first meeting. And the bloke who ran it said, Oh, my God, I love that you asked that question. He said, Because it's 5%. I'm desperate to increase that. And I said, Well, what do you want it to be? He goes, I want it to be 20. And we hammered that. So because he focused on that for the next 12 months, they didn't hit 20 in 12 months, but they hit 12. He was beside himself. Every person in that business knew that they wanted to hit 20%. So they were laser focused on it. So of course, what happens when you focus on something, the activity then means that occurs. So it's the same in business, it's the same with personal finance, it's where you water at, that's where things will grow.

Roslyn Ranse:  We were talking briefly, before we hit record about the travel industry, and how, as travel business owners alike, the whole landscape has changed. One thing that I'm certainly seeing now is where previously travel advisors would get paid a commission for what they booked, whether it was an airline hotel supply, it doesn't matter, but they would get paid a portion. So now, as we're coming through this time, pricing is really important because those commissions are no longer but what hasn't changed. What I'm trying to do is encourage advisors to actually talk about the value that they provide for the consumer or their clients, because their clients don't realize how they were actually paid previously. Now I'm saying, Look, you need to be charging for your services or being paid for your experience and your expertise and your knowledge. So when we talk about pricing in business, I know you've got an incredible free download for everyone. I really appreciate that, which is your 10 ways to improve your pricing. But from a business perspective, have you got any tips that you would share with the travel industry to say it's okay to be?

Melissa Browne: Absolutely and having been in the financial planning advice industry went through a very similar thing that we used to pick being paid by commission and not charging upfront. Then we had to flip that Because suddenly, you were not allowed or commissions were being phased out. So I've been through this exact same thing. I think because I was in the accounting firm, we had upfront pricing, we had pricing models, and we were very clear. And this is what we did. Because when I came to the financial planning industry, it was just in the throes of introducing this.I said, I'm going to do that from the get go, I'm going to be the outlier and say, I'm not going to receive any commissions, and I'm going to price upfront. But you're exactly right. 

If you're going to do that, you have to be really clear on the customer that you want to attract. So really clear on that person. Then you have to figure out what's their pain points, what's important to them? Are they time poor, and they just want to throw money at the problem. And they have family and actually, they are really sensitive with price. They want the best deal. But I do want to shop for it. They're going to value you doing that for them. So or are they corporate, and again, there's a kind of a hybrid between the two, it's being really clear on who you are targeting, and then the value that you're providing to them. But again, it's also really important to understand there's a psychology to pricing. It's not simply saying, Oh, I'm now going to charge X for what I do that's just not gonna work. So you need to understand things like pricing, you need to understand that bundling that things like offering three different packages for what you do not five, not seven, not one, but three, because it's a sweet spot. 

I put a lot of that into my pricing download. If you can understand the psychology of pricing, if you can start to geek out on this and realize what it means for you. You could really sprint in front of your industry, because you will be doing well. I think if you do pricing well and I mean price up front, let people know what the story is. If you do that, well, you will actually make your customers delighted and you'll be more profitable than your competitors. It's also going to be about communication, because as you say, customers aren't used to paying for this. So it's teaching customers the value and being really clear as to what you can do that we can't because you know I'm a great online shopper. So I think, therefore that I can book my own travel, you need to convince me why that's not the case. So this is an education piece as well.

Roslyn Ranse: Yeah. Oh, there's so much more to this. And I know that Mel, you and I could continue on pricing, valuing cash flow and all the other great stuff that comes with owning a business. And you know, for our listeners, as travel advisors, there is so much more to this. But I also just want to be very mindful of overloading everybody.

Melissa Browne:  Yes, absolutely.

Roslyn Ranse: So right now, I just want to say, Mel, thank you so much for everything that you've done for the industry for also the educational point of view, and also just encouraging. You know, business owners, women, the general public out there to understand money, understand your story, understand where you're at, and be able to make the changes that work for you. Thank you for opening the lid on all of that. So for everybody that is listening here today, I really encourage you to grab Mel's books, listen to her podcast as well, and join our financial adulting program, which is open in January, she only opens it and closes it very quickly. 

So you need to be on the waitlist for all of that we are going to link to everything in our show notes. But to start with Mel, thank you so much for being here. If people do want to follow you on Instagram, and you're super cool reels, and your love hates chocolate and everything else that goes on in your world. How can people find you?

Melissa Browne:  So it's currently more money for shoes that may might change, but come search for me over there, or Melissa Browne that comes out of you. But can I just say that, I know that your industry is going to be so fatigued. I know that I can't imagine being hit like you all have been. And then being told oh, and by the way, we're moving commission. Now go and deal with another thing I imagine you must have people going, I just want to curl up in the fetal position and just have a little cry at a time when you're ramping up. So my thing would be to pick one thing, you know, whether it's pricing, whether it's cash flow, and you might look at a different thing every single month might be personal finance when you come play with me. But be kind to yourself, don't overload yourself, and stick with someone like Ros, who's going to gently and carefully pull you along without you having to be overwhelmed with it. 

Roslyn Ranse: Yeah, Thank you for that. Now, I absolutely hear and the industry is tired. You know, speaking about that before going from really great business to nothing and trying to survive through now the changes that are all happening so everybody. Please be kind to yourself and know that one step at a time in the direction of your dreams and where you want to go but it's okay. You don't need to be doing everything all at once and right now it's just taking care of yourself and also your business to continue to come through this time and absolutely soar into the future. 

So thank you so much Mel once again for being here. I sincerely appreciate you, your time. I can't wait to catch up with you in person aand see you again very soon in person.

Melissa Browne:  I'm an introvert. Well, that may or may not happen.

Roslyn Ranse: That is gonna happen. I will see you and I know that. All right, everybody. Thank you Mel, thank you so much for having me. 

What an awesome chat with the incredible Mel Browne and I do encourage every single one of you to download her resources, listen to her podcast, she is straight up and we'll tell you how it is there is no fluff, no BS with what she goes through.

Money is so important. It is something that we talk about in our travel business accelerator but really just to open your eyes. Mel's program with the financial adulting course is absolute gold. I've done it myself. We will be linking to it in the show notes. Make sure you join the waitlist and as she opens in January, I will be actively talking about it because I think it is something we all need to learn about. 

So thank you for listening today. Thank you for being here. Have an amazing rest of your week. Be kind to yourself. I hope you're not curled up in the fetal position that if you are struggling, please reach out and know that I am here to support you, encourage you and assist you as you build the travel business that you absolutely deserve. Bye for now.